Outercurve Foundation

Developer
Jun 5, 2015 at 12:04 AM
Is Outercurve Foundation still active?
Coordinator
Jun 5, 2015 at 12:47 PM
As far as I am aware, the Outercurve Foundation is still running, but this is a very good opportunity to discuss the location of the library and its repo. Given that we have now migrated to git, I am wondering how people would feel about moving the whole project across to github.

There is a subsidiary and related question about the project name, which might also be worth considering. But first things first. Would anyone have any great issue with us migrating the whole project to github? One suspects that the visibility might be increased markedly.
Coordinator
Jun 5, 2015 at 12:52 PM
However, having just tried http://www.outercurve.org/, I understand the reason for the question...
Coordinator
Jun 5, 2015 at 2:19 PM
Nigel and I had a brief conversation about moving to Github. I'm all for it, I think he is too but i'll let him voice his own opinion ;)

mark
Developer
Jun 5, 2015 at 6:48 PM
I am indeed always up for github!
Coordinator
Jun 9, 2015 at 6:58 AM
I think this is definitely the way to go. I am trying to find out further information about the state of outercurve. At present it seems dormant at best. The site is back up, but nothing much has happened for more than a year.

My feeling is that we should move to gitub, but not to the outercurve hierarchy there. We can readily create dotnetbio, but it would be good to understand what is happening with outercurve. Thoughts or other investigations?
Coordinator
Jun 9, 2015 at 4:14 PM
We should find out the ownership requirements as part of this. When MSR moved this to Outercurve, my understanding was that Outercurve owned the code. We can certainly branch it to Github (at least I think) based on the OSS license it's under, but I'm not sure if we can move the project.
Coordinator
Jun 9, 2015 at 10:54 PM
Indeed. Outercurve need to be consulted. Let us see what emerges from that. As noted, they have a collection of projects on github at https://github.com/outercurve but I don't see this as especially active.
Jun 9, 2015 at 11:48 PM
I work over at the .NET Foundation. Some of the Outercurve projects came over to us a while ago (things like NuGet etc). If you get stuck, let me know if I can help as there is an agreement already in place between Outercurve and the .NET Foundation that would allow the .NET Bio project to move over to the .NET Foundation if the project co-ordinators wanted it to. It doesn't mean you'd need to move to the http://github.com/dotnet org - you could also go to your own GitHub org if you wanted to or even stay on CodePlex. Whatever works best for your project - but do let me know if I can do anything to help.
Coordinator
Jun 10, 2015 at 11:46 PM
Thanks Martin. There is a consensus that for visibility and the potential for collaboration that we would go to gitHub. The ownership isn't that important in principle as long as the licensing remains consistent and sane. However, Outercurve is the incumbent, as it were, and so we need to chat with them about it. I would think that however we go, a separate github presence from the dotnet or outercurve org might be the best approach. I have emailed Eric, but not heard anything yet. Who do you deal with at Outercurve?
Jun 11, 2015 at 12:41 AM
First of all, regarding a GitHub move I would personally recommend that you create your own GitHub org and just go into it. That will give you the most flexibility and is free for public repos. Moving to GitHub isn't affected by the Outercurve / .NET Foundation question. Update your project homepage on CodePlex to show people where things are now and take the opportunity to clear out your issues and start again on GitHub just copy pasting over the details of any issues still relevant. You can even email CodePlex support if you wanted and they could disable the issues tab on this project. I've worked with a number of projects who have done the move and they've gone well. You get a good version control and pull request experience at GitHub. GitHub doesn't come with a separate discussion system, Issues don't have voting capabilities which some CodePlex folks miss and binary downloads work quite different. But if mostly what you want is somewhere to host Git repos then GitHub is a fine choice.

Now, about assignment...

We've apparently been having a bit of trouble getting hold of people at Outercurve just recently which is why I offered the help in case you don't hear back (hopefully you will). If you don't hear anything you could also try https://twitter.com/sramji next as Sam is also a good guy and I think he is still on the Outercurve board.

But the good news is that we signed an agreement with them that was approved by their board of directors on July 22 2014 that allows for some projects to change ownership from the Outercurve Foundation to the .NET Foundation if they wanted.

We moved some of the projects over such as NuGet etc. But in that agreement, .NET Bio was listed as a community project also covered. Under the agreement if a community project elects to be assigned to the .NET Foundation by a written communication to the foundation (i.e. something as simple as you get a majority of the active coordinators to say in this thread that they would like to move) then your project will be deemed an "assigned project" under the agreement and you can become a .NET Foundation Project if you want without the need to get hold of anyone at Outercurve.

The agreement listed a bunch of projects under the community category but I didn't reach out to you until now because I didn't want us to be pushy or come across like we where trying to poach projects away from the Outercurve Foundation. Your project is doing great as it is - why mess with something that's working if you are happy with Outercurve, especially as the folks there have been very cool over the years.

But if you don't hear back from Outercurve and need a plan B then one option open to you would be to come to the .NET Foundation. You can stay under our umbrella if you wanted (we'd certainly be happy to help if you needed anything) or if all you needed was to go it alone I'd also be more than happy to arrange a further assignment of the code from the .NET Foundation to anyone else your project wanted it to go to and there would be a nice clean assignment paper trail.

Another alternative would just be to fork yourselves over in GitHub and go it alone as if you where a brand new project owned by the committers of the project using the Apache 2.0 licensed code here under the terms of it's Open Source license. You wouldn't have the backing of a foundation anymore as a legal entity behind your project but I can talk you through what that backing would actually mean if you wanted and you can all figure out if that's still important to you or not.

Just let me know if there is anything I can do to help. Always happy to assist a .NET OSS project.
Coordinator
Jun 11, 2015 at 5:13 PM
I see Ross Gardler still listed on the Mentors list on the Outercurve site.
He worked with us as our mentor. I should think he could still provide information on Outercurve status.
I don't have my old email names/contacts from when we worked directly with Outercurve - and perhaps Simon may.
Jun 11, 2015 at 5:41 PM
I don't have any more info than the rest of us I'm afraid. I will ping some folks and ask them to comment here.
Coordinator
Jun 11, 2015 at 11:03 PM
Thanks Martin for the very informative post. As you note, the issue of the move to Github is separate from the one of ownership. We have created an empty site at https://github.com/dotnetbio, with a new organisation in that name. We will proceed to migrate as discussed, there being a lot of good reasons for the move. However, on the 'ownership' side, I think we should probably try to make contact with outercurve over the next week or so, and see if we get some response. If not, then the .NET Foundation may be a better bet. Any thoughts from anyone on this?
Coordinator
Jun 11, 2015 at 11:05 PM
Thanks Rick, Ross for the thoughts and comments - Was mid post from last night and didn't see them until this post went through.
Coordinator
Jun 16, 2015 at 1:24 AM
Hi folks - heard back from Eric and he too has pinged the Outercurve people and I have now emailed. Will wait and see.